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Hi and welcome to The Long View. I’m Christine Benz, director of personal finance and retirement planning for Morningstar. On this week’s episode, we will feature some of our favorite clips from interviews we have done with financial planners, advisors, and retirement researchers over the past year. It’s a counterpart to a previously released “Best Of” episode that was all about investing. As usual, we delved into the topic of psychology and money, and the importance of tuning out the noise if you’re a long-term investor.
“JL Collins: The (Still) Simple Path to Wealth,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, July 1, 2025.
“Charley Ellis: Indexing Is a Marvelous Gift,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Aug. 5, 2025.
“Larry Jacobson: ‘The Good Things in Our Life Are What Get in the Way of Great Things,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Sept. 16, 2025.
“Dan Haylett: ‘The Retirement You Didn’t See Coming,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Nov. 18, 2025.
“Kerry Hannon: What Gen Xers Need to Know About Their Retirement Plans,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Sept. 30, 2025.
“Carl Richards: The Case for ‘Deeply Human’ Financial Advice,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Oct. 21, 2025.
“Dana Anspach and Fritz Gilbert: ‘This Is What a Joyful Retirement Could Feel Like,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Sept. 23, 2025.
“Barry Ritholtz: ‘How Not to Invest,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Oct. 7, 2025.
“Nick Maggiulli: Climbing the Wealth Ladder,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, July 22, 2025.
“Doug and Heather Boneparth: How Couples Can Find Financial Harmony,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Oct. 28, 2025.
“Ramit Sethi: ‘We Have to Make Money Fun and Connective,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, March 4, 2025.
“Beth Pinsker: Lessons From ‘My Mother’s Money,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Nov. 4, 2025.
“Jean Chatzky: What Women Need to Do Differently With Their Money,” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, April 8, 2025.
“Sahil Bloom: ‘Curiosity Is the Fountain of Youth,’” The Long View podcast, Morningstar.com, Feb. 4, 2025.
Transcript
(Please stay tuned for important disclosure information at the conclusion of this episode.)
Christine Benz: Hi and welcome to The Long View. I’m Christine Benz, director of personal finance and retirement planning for Morningstar.
On this week’s episode, we will feature some of our favorite clips from interviews we have done with financial planners, advisors, and retirement researchers over the past year. It’s a counterpart to a previously released “Best Of” episode that was all about investing. As usual, we delved into the topic of psychology and money, and the importance of tuning out the noise if you’re a long-term investor.
Author JL Collins, who released a new edition of his blockbuster book, The Simple Path to Wealth, memorably compared investing in the market to a foamy beer.
JL Collins: The market is really two things, just like if you’re looking at a mug of beer, it’s two things. So, if you look at the mug of beer and let’s assume it’s in a mug that you can’t see through, there’s going to be foam on top. And underneath that foam, there’s going to be beer. And depending how that beer was poured, there will be more or less foam, more or less beer. And if you look at the stock market, there is the stock market of the financial news that you see day to day, the traders, what’s the market going to do next? What stock should you buy now? What should you be selling?
All of that speculation, all of that is what I call the foam. Underneath all the foam is the beer. And the beer is the actual companies that we own, the actual companies that provide services and make products. And if they do that well, generate profits that pay us as owners. It’s the beer that I’m interested in. It’s the beer that investors are interested in. Because we’re long term, we want to own that business or a small part of it. When I own VTSAX, I own a piece of every publicly traded company in the United States of America. And everybody in those companies, from the factory floor to the CEO, is working to make me richer. That’s the beer. The stock price is in large part based on how well that company is doing based on the beer. But the wild fluctuations you see in the stock price of any given company, that’s the foam. That’s the traders doing all of the things that traders do day to day. That’s all the noise you hear on the TV. And all of that, if you’re smart, you’re just going to ignore because you don’t care what the market is doing in a week or a year or tomorrow or later today because you’re in it for the beer.
Benz: We had a wonderful conversation with investment consultant and author, Charley Ellis, who released a new book called Rethinking Investing in 2025. He made the case that investors should consider their total financial pictures when determining how much to invest in stocks and how much to hold in safer assets.
Charley Ellis: Most people look at their securities portfolio as though it were in isolation, and it’s not. It’s in a context, and the context is all of the other assets and the incomes that you have. And for most people who are investors, if you look at the size of their 401(k) plan and the value of their Social Security when it gets claimed, but what’s its present value today is a big item and their homes are usually a big item as well. If they would only think of those values, the home value and the Social Security value as part of their total portfolio, they would, I think, in almost every case, make a serious reconsideration and reduce their bond portfolio substantially. And if there’s any one thing that I would love to see every individual do is take the whole picture: incomes that you haven’t yet received, but you’re going to get; Social Security that you haven’t claimed, but you will be able to; and your value of your home. I know you’re not going to sell it, but someday somebody in your family—maybe your children, maybe your grandchildren—somebody in your family is going to say, “You know, we really don’t want to live in that home any longer. We should sell it.” It is an asset, and you should recognize it for the asset it truly is.
Benz: We chatted about many different dimensions of retirement last year. Larry Jacobson, author of Your Ideal Retirement Planning Workbook, argued that people often focus disproportionately on the financial dimension.
Larry Jacobson: Just look at advertising. Any billboards or television, it’s all advertisements about saving your money for retirement and having enough money for retirement. And do you have enough? It never asks, what are you going to do with your time all day? And it never asks, how will you find purpose or fulfillment? And so, we never really thought about it. We never really—we didn’t think we needed a plan because no one ever told us we needed a plan. Therefore, we didn’t know how to write one. We didn’t even know what a plan would look like.
And part of that also is that we’re entering into a phase of life that is new. The boomer generation is the first generation to have the luxury of additional years that we get to do something else. We get to do over. My parents and a lot of people’s parents, they worked hard and then they retired, golfed for a year and then died. And we work hard and then we can retire and then we’ve got 20 more years left. That’s an awful long time to golf and to hope that golf will provide that purpose and fulfillment.
And I know there’s some people out there going, what, golf, more than golf? You’re really nuts, Larry. But our lives are scripted from birth basically in the United States. We go from elementary school to junior high school to high school. Then from there we go to either college or the military or an academy or an apprenticeship. And then we go into our work life. And when that’s over, when our work life is over—it’s like on Broadway, I always say that if it’s not on the page, it’s not on the stage. So, when you turn the page in your life’s script for what happens when you retire, there’s nothing there. It’s blank. And so, we get to write our own script. I have clients who are CEOs and VPs, and they have written multiple business plans, but they’ve never taken the time to write their own plan for what they’re going to do. And a lot of that also I think is because people get so entrenched in their careers that that’s what they know. Like my CEO friends, it’s like, how do I just let go of all of this? And you can tell when someone has not let go of their career, their identity if they’re retired and you ask them, “Tell me something about yourself.” And they might say, “Well, I’m a retired teacher, or I’m a retired cop, or I’m a retired lawyer,” or whatever. Well, that means they’re still hanging on to their old career. They haven’t moved on to the next one yet.
Benz: Financial advisor and author, Dan Haylett, observed that conceiving of retirement as an extended vacation means that people are often unprepared for the reality of it.
Dan Haylett: We all love our holidays or vacations, leisure time, and everything, right? But we enjoy them because they’re not forever. We look forward to going on holiday. We look forward to playing paddle tennis or pickleball or golf or something at the weekend with our pals and friends. And if that’s 24/7, it isn’t something to look forward to or maybe enjoy as much anymore. So, I think there’s a big problem when it comes to that and it’s not necessarily this deep-rooted purposeful, get-out-of-bed-every-day type activities that you’d have. Look, I’m a big golfer and I know people that have retired and played golf for three or four days a week for about six months and then stopped playing for six months because they just got fed up with it.
And I think that is part of the problem. It’s the elation phase that this retirement honeymoon phase that everybody should embrace because it’s a wonderful time of your retirement to go away and to let off some steam and do a couple of big bucket list items and play some more golf and go away on holiday and spend more time with family. We have to understand that that bit has to and should come to an end in its entirety in terms of doing it all the time to get to a much better rhythm and pace of everyday life. And I talk about, there’s 365 days in a year, you can’t be on holiday for all of them. We need to understand what we’re going to do on a Tuesday morning at 9:47 when the dogs look at us a bit funny going, what are you doing in my house all the time? We need to figure out what that looks like, not three weeks in the Maldives or Florida. So, yeah, I think that that’s a big problem. I think people have this kind of brochure, retirement brochure-type outlook. It’s dressed in white linen on a beach with cocktails and a golden retriever running by your side. And that’s OK, but that’s not that rainy Tuesday morning that we all need to figure out. That needs to give us a bit of purpose and joy as well.
Benz: Kerry Hannon’s new book is about retirement planning for people in the Gen X generation. She shared strategies for segueing into retirement gradually.
Kerry Hannon: Retirement really is an outdated concept for many people. And heck, yeah, you’re going to grieve a little bit if you step away because that’s your identity. I mean, you’re relevant. And it happens, I dare say, still more for men than women, your friendships are there. That’s a lot of your network is at the office. And so, it’s really important to say, hey, recognize that there’s a process of letting go. But there’s also, if you have had the opportunity to kind of look forward to what it is that you’re transitioning to and focus more on the to rather than what you’re transitioning from as we sort of talked about a second ago.
I am a big fan of working with a coach of some kind, if you can, who can kind of see it from the balcony—really look at you and your lifestyle and help you think about how you might balance your life moving forward to add some of those things that you had to set aside while you were working full speed ahead. But also, you might want to find ways that you can volunteer or continue working for pay on a different wavelength in a different way that really matters to you and allows you to give back or whether it’s traveling you want to do. But there’s a whole variety of buckets as people look at their retirement years. And so, it’s a making a plan. It’s not like going in with your eyes closed. And there’s so many ways that you can start jotting down what are the things that you love to do? What would you like to do more of? It’s a holistic way of looking at retirement. It’s not just about money.
I think work is part of a retirement plan. That’s for me. I think it’s having some way of earning money. If it’s volunteer, that’s great as well, because you’re adding to who you are and you’re feeling part of the world, and it builds your network again. So much in retirement we hear a lot about loneliness. Getting involved, being engaged in the world is critical.
Benz: We discussed the financial aspect of retirement at length, including retirement spending. Author Carl Richards agreed that it can be difficult to turn on spending after a lifetime of saving and notes that the key is practice.
Carl Richards: I mean, it’s easy to understand, the reason—if you’re in a position where you’ve been successful, which a lot of the listeners of this show either are or advise people that are in that position. The very habits and traits and characteristics that got you there delayed gratification. You’re really good at that.
You might even be good at being frugal, but certainly delaying gratification, investing for the future, waiting, and now you’re at the spot you’ve been waiting for. And you’ve been waiting for this thing, you’ve been successful, you waited for this thing. So, what do you do now? And it’s antithetical to your very identity and so I think you practice. The same thing we do, you just practice. Look, the research is clear, but you don’t need another lecture about the research. This behavior is perfectly rational, but now the situation you’re in, it’s slightly irrational to be at the spot where you could put the golf shoes on and refuse to do it. Or maybe even more interestingly, wouldn’t it be fun to spend a little bit of time with the grandkids doing things they love? Oh man, I have this one grandkid that really wants to learn to sail, and his parents are busy, and can I go spend a week at a sailing camp? And I could kind of be on the shore or even sail with them? That’s going to cost some money. The research is pretty clear that, and you pointed to Brian’s work and many other people about this funded contentment.
So, practice, and like anything you’d practice, start small. This is funny, Christine and I are asking you to go spend some money. Tomorrow, I want you to find something and ideally find something small that you’ve always just wanted. You don’t even need it; you just wanted to do it. It’s small, it’s $25, it’s $100, it’s $5. Maybe it’s even to the point of you bought into the latte thing; you didn’t buy coffee out because you were saving, but you love coffee out. Go tomorrow morning to your favorite coffee shop. Feel the whole way through it, buy your favorite thing; it’s going to be $12. Sit in your favorite seat with the book that you’ve been reading and enjoy it and feel the enjoyment of it. And it’s a $12 rep, a $12 practice. And I think that’s what you do, you rewire it until you get to the point where you’re like, you know what, I’m going to pay for my grandson’s entire education, because I’m so excited about the fact that he wants to become an electrician. I’m going to fund a scholarship for women who are getting into biomedical engineering. I think the way you get there is you practice.
Benz: Financial planner, Dana Anspach, shared that some of her clients have been gratified to use their money to help others.
Dana Anspach: The majority of the type of client we work with do fall in that category where they have sufficient assets but really struggle with spending. And we have tried numerous things. One of those is mailing the book, Die with Zero, and using that as an introduction to have conversations around meaningful spending to emphasize that we’re not just encouraging frivolous spending, but meaningful spending.
One of the coolest stories we had was a client who read that book and really, they felt completely comfortable as they shared, they said, “We’re the kind of people who still share a single Coke at dinner.” And so, they were comfortable with their own spending, but they had a family member who had always been scraping by, and they said they were giving him $10,000, and he was shocked, and why are you doing this? And they explained, they had read the book, and he shared the whole thought process and what he was going to do. And the number one thing that he wanted to spend the money on was prescription glasses. He’d never had the money for prescription glasses. And I think about that story and the difference that you can make in people’s lives. So many of us would take prescription glasses for granted. And to this person, that money was so meaningful and could make such a difference in some daily things that they were struggling with.
And so, those are things my husband and I have talked a lot about. As we don’t have children, how do we find people who are really working at it and trying hard, and are there ways we can contribute to their lives now that can really make a difference for them? Maybe they simply need a laptop to be able to get to work or transportation or there’s so many people struggling that the tiniest little boost can make a difference for them. And so, we try to talk about those kinds of things with our clients. It’s not just spending to spend but on things that can make a difference.
Benz: Author and financial planner, Barry Ritholtz, also riffed on spending and frugality culture in our conversation with him about his book, How Not to Invest.
Barry Ritholtz: First, a lot of people have found fame and fortune by being budget scolds. And I think Dave Ramsey is right: If you’re carrying a giant credit card debt, you should do what you can to pay that down. Like most things in life, a good idea gets taken to an illogical extreme and it becomes pretty useless.
If you’re a middle-class or above earner and your bills are covered and you’re saving for retirement and you want to buy a latte, who cares? If $5 is the difference between a well-funded retirement or not, then something else is wrong with what you’re doing. It’s like, why are we focused—and by the way, the latte nonsense started in the late 2010s before the pandemic, where we were pretty much looking at about 30 years of no real gains in wages even as corporate profits have gone up and valuations on homes and everything else had gone up. And so why are we focused on the pennies when the hundreds of thousands of dollars are problematic? If you haven’t received a better-than-inflation raise for 30 years, a latte is irrelevant.
And then secondly, the advice, don’t buy a new car, never buy a house, don’t buy a boat—all this dumb stuff. It’s half of advice. The correct advice is have a household budget, figure out what you can afford, live within your means.
Benz: Author Nick Maggiulli shared a rule for spending without guilt from his book, The Wealth Ladder.
Nick Maggiulli: The 0.01% rule basically says that you can spend 0.01% of your wealth or just another way of looking at it’s one-10,000th. So, you could call this the one-10,000th rule as well. You can spend one-10,000th of your wealth on a daily basis without having to worry about anything. And so, I’ll explain where that comes from. So, let’s say your net worth is $10,000. You’re basically right on the cusp between level one and level two. That means you can spend an extra $1 per day without any worry about jeopardizing your future wealth. And where that $1 that 0.01% comes from is, on an annualized basis, if you’ve got a return of 0.01% a day, that’s like a little bit under 4% a year. It’s like 3.7% a year. It’s very conservative return. So, every day your wealth is generating that much money.
So, if you have $10,000 in wealth every day in theory, you’re generating an extra $1 a day without doing anything. So, in theory, you could spend that $1 and not jeopardize your future wealth. So, if you have $100,000 in wealth, you could spend $10 a day. If you have $1 million in wealth, you can spend $100 a day, and so on. Now, obviously this isn’t your total spending. If you live in the United States, you’re not going to survive on $1 a day. This is the marginal spend. Everyone’s making a spending decision, you’re making it on the margin.
Like when you go to buy a car, you’re not saying, “Oh, should I get a Toyota Camry or a Maserati?” You’re debating between the Camry and the slightly nicer Camry. That’s what I’m saying. You’re always doing it on the margin. Like when you sit down in a restaurant and you’re like, “Do I want to get the burger for $20 or the salmon for $30?” That marginal difference is $10. And so, my argument is that once you have like $100,000 in wealth, that extra $10, you can spend that every time you go to a restaurant without worrying about it. And so, the 0.1% rule works in that way by just it allows you to have some lifestyle creep because you’ve shown financial disciplines. Like, hey, look, I’ve reached this level of wealth so I can now spend more in certain categories. But until I reach that level of wealth, I’m not going to do that.
Benz: We had several conversations about couples and money during the year. We asked Doug and Heather Boneparth, whose book is called Money Together, about whether couples should combine their finances.
Doug Boneparth: All the studies and statistics that we’ve looked at bear out that couples that join their finances together and operate as a team tend to do better overall. And that’s financially better, the relationship is better. So, in practice and personally, I believe the best thing that you could do is create a shared financial environment to operate out of. Now, having said that, truly the thing that works is what works best for you and your own household. I’ve seen every configuration imaginable and even though I might recommend something different, I’ve seen a lot of other setups work.
So, a lot of that really is there being autonomy for the individual. So, people still like to feel like they have a level of independence. So definitely have your own checking account. There are just things that go on in the lives of people where you want to be giving gifts, and you don’t want your partner to know about that. You just want the feeling of the independence. Fine, I get all of that. But I think maybe greater than that is maybe having a shared number when it comes to spending. Is there a number you should check in with with your partner? So, you don’t really need to worry about individual accounts versus joint accounts. It’s just a matter of, hey, you have systems in place to make sure that the decisions you’re making, whether that be on a daily basis or throughout the year, are ones that you both agree with.
But again, for me, and I do like that the statistics bear out, you’re playing a team game here. And also, just from a transparency point of view, I would add everyone having access and the ability to see everything, again, just creates better teamwork and a better framework around money.
Benz: Author Ramit Sethi, who wrote Money for Couples, cautioned against couples designating one person the money person while the other tunes out.
Ramit Sethi: Many couples really slide into their financial arrangements with each other. Like I said, most couples don’t talk about money substantively. It’s quite rare that a new couple would sit down and say, “Hey, let’s gather all of our information and let’s create our shared vision and our philosophy on money.” No, it’s much more likely that one person comes with these five accounts. The other has these four accounts. They sort of combine it, but not really. And it’s a little sloppy. What you will find in almost every couple is that there is a money person. In my opinion, this is a big no-no, it’s a huge mistake. It’s tempting, but it is a potentially catastrophic mistake. Here’s the dynamic. We intuitively divide up responsibilities in a relationship. One person empties the dishwasher. The other mows the lawn. I get that.
But money is unlike any of those things. Money is much more similar to parenting. It encompasses every part of life. And you would rarely see a couple, especially these days, who says like, “Oh, he does the parenting, or she does the parenting.” No, it’s like, we both do it. We talk about it every day. And that is the same with money. So that’s the philosophy. But then there’s also the pragmatic reasons. When my wife and I started seriously talking about money, it would have been really easy for me to become the money person. This is what I do for a living. I’m good at it. But I insisted that we both participate.
Benz: We also had several wonderful conversations about aging and eldercare on the podcast over the past year. Beth Pinsker, author of My Mother’s Money, discussed how adult children can help provide oversight for their parents without being too intrusive.
Beth Pinsker: It’s sort of like the old dilemma of when do you take the car keys away? So, it’s a hard emotional thing. And with the bills, the first thing with something like the life insurance or the long-term-care insurance, you can be what’s called a trusted contact. And when you put a trusted contact on those accounts, if you get past-due notices, they send a duplicate past-due notice to whoever it is that you’ve identified. When my mom got those past-due notices, my brother also got one. And he’s like, “Hey, don’t we have to get on top of this?” And I’m like, “Yeah, I’m on it. Don’t worry.” I just got a notice from my long-term-care insurance that I need to update my trusted contact because my trusted contact is my mother. And that wouldn’t work out so well with me if something happened because she’s no longer there. So, you’ve got to keep on top of these things.
You can do that for a brokerage account. And then if your elderly mother calls up her broker at Schwab or Fidelity or Vanguard and says, “I want to take out $5,000 and put it in gift cards.” They can say, “Maybe we should call your trusted contact before we put through that transaction and alert them that you’re making a large withdrawal, and trying to put it in a denomination that’s very familiar in scams.” And they’re trained on their end at the brokerage firms to look for that sort of cognitive decline or potential elder abuse. And they can flag the trusted contact if they see something that’s amiss. When you’re talking about bills and other things, this is where the power of attorney comes in really handy. You can be power of attorney on somebody’s account and just get it set up that way, even if you don’t need it right away. So, we’re trying to do this now with other relatives.
Benz: With author and podcaster Jean Chatzki we discussed how caregiving for parents often falls squarely on women and how it can imperil their finances.
Jean Chatzki: MetLife did a study a number of years ago, and I think they put the caregiving cost at about $340,000 in lost income for those who were taking on caregiving. It’s a huge impact. It’s not just lost income. It’s lost seniority at work. It’s lost Social Security credits. It can be very difficult if you take a step out to get back in. I was not a long-term caregiver for either of my parents, but I’ve seen a number of people go through this. Often, the question they asked themselves on the other side was, is there an alternative, would there have been an alternative? Sometimes, even if the cost of care is equal to what you’re earning, it can make sense to try to stay in the workforce and find some other way to pay for care out of your salary, out of your resources, rather than take yourself completely off track. When we think about the sandwich generation, there are so many challenges that are going on at the exact same time. We’re trying to save for our own retirements. We’re trying to save for and then pay for college for our kids, and we’re trying to help our older parents. When it’s our own retirement, we can delay it. We can just push it back a bit. When it’s college for our kids, we don’t like to borrow, but we often do, and those resources are certainly available. When it’s our parents, sometimes we don’t think that there are choices, but I think that there are more than we sometimes take the time to explore.
Benz: Finally, one of our favorite conversations of the year came early on when Sahil Bloom discussed his book, The Five Types of Wealth. He argued that building financial wealth is essential, but investing in human relationships is even more important.
Sahil Bloom: There is scientific evidence that the strength of your relationships is the single most important predictor of your health and happiness in life. The Harvard study of adult development was this incredible study conducted over 85-plus years, 2,000-plus participants that they followed the lives of. And they found that the single greatest predictor of your physical health at age 80 was your relationship satisfaction at age 50. It was more important than your cholesterol, than your blood pressure, than your alcohol and smoking habits. It was how you felt about your relationships, the people you surrounded yourself with have that impact on your life. And yet we don’t take that into account. We spend all of this time and energy thinking about our financial investments and we ignore our relationship investments, which tend to pay the greatest dividends.
Investing in your relationships on a daily basis compounds positively in your life in the exact same way that financial investments do. But we need to have that mindset shift. And so, making these changes, taking these actions, even if they’re tiny, you don’t have to move across the country like we did. But you can take the two seconds to send the text to the person, to let them know you’re thinking about them. You can take the time to make sure you schedule that date with the friend that you don’t see enough anymore. You can do the annual trip with the old friends and be the catalyst for actually having that come together so that it doesn’t fall by the wayside again. No single change has ever had a greater impact on our quality of life than moving across the country to live within driving distance of our parents. No single change. And I firmly believe that no job will ever pay you enough to be far away from people you love.
Benz: We hope that you enjoyed this Best of The Long View episode and we’d like to thank you all for listening this past year. From all of us at The Long View, we wish you all the best in the year ahead.
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